We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. Caller: Yeah. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. That's too big for Bobcat. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. No that's a little bit outside the range. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Okay. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. John. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. They absolutely do. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. So so. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! So. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. And the cougar embodies that. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Yes and you want to share what you learned. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Well within there. I'm Peter Biello. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Think you've seen a mountain lion. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Is that typically what was happening there. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Caller: Oh hi. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. He said matter of fact I do. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . So do they. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. I mean it wasn't your idea. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Pelosi story here we go. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: Well. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? Can we go to the site. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. We'll be right back. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 Tell us your story. By Eric Orff. Early in the morning. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. For all the men out there that don't realize it. That's next time on one day. So let's let's go to the phones. Thanks very much. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. So Michael follows with the question. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Well thanks for sharing. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? So that did it for me. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Tim Yeah. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Mike thanks for your call. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. I'll send it to you. Chartered: 1973 . All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. David Erler says some of them probably have. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. Give today. John is calling from Bennington. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. We want answers. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. I think that you probably are. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. She is renowned for tracking. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. Phone number 1 800. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Patrick Tate: Yes. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. They just end up in these places. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. 1957. Peter Biello: Ok. What kind of animal is that. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. And why would they what. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. But no proof was offered. Just. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. Good morning guys. It's listed as population of least concern. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. It's bigger but bigger and better world. You know interactions are pretty unusual. 19 Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. Here it is. Right. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Less successful males roam further. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. So what a neat experience. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. So what counts as verifiable evidence? Your support makes this news available to everyone. You don't know what's going on. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Your support makes this news available to everyone. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today.
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